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 NO RUG (Natural Order Red/Blue/Green)

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Rawr Bucket
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PostSubject: NO RUG (Natural Order Red/Blue/Green)   Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:24 pm

So I've been doing some damage with this archetype lately in the Worlds/Skyfox saturday legacy events, and was wondering if people were up for discussing the archetype.

For reference, here is an example decklist:



What's it beat? What beats it? What does it run? Why is it so good that it's pulling 25% of the current legacy meta?

These are the big questions, and I have many of the answers:

If you have no idea what I'm talking about, check out some starcitygames.com articles on NO RUG. They're very helpful (especially Reid Dukes, since he was one of the deck's original creators). I may recap a few of the ideas presented in other articles but as this is a forum discussion there is some breathing room and I won't simply retype out everything I've discovered.

For starters, NO RUG is good because by definition it does not really carry any truely horrid matchups. It goes 50-50, or close to it, against pretty much every other archetype. The only build I've run into trouble with so far has been Bant Aggro, mainly because the pre-board runs answers to rug's combos, and the sideboard is just loaded with problem solvers for the deck. Even then, it is still possible to take out Bant players if you can outplay them or open a sick hand.

Now, what does NO RUG run exaclty that makes it SO good? Well, you've got your NO package (Natural Order x4, Progenitus x1). For those less-competitive players, this means you can drop a wimpy little green creature (like a Dryad Arbor you fetched for or a Noble Hierarch) and pull out Mr. Protection-From-Everything, putting the opponent on a 2-turn clock. Not much you can usually do to stop a prog. The deck gets its combo out through things like 4x Brainstorm, occasionally 1-2x Silvan Library (which wins attrition battles and gets around Mental Misstep, unlike Sensei's Top), some builds going as far as a 1-2x Ponder for that extra dig.
The consistency of the deck is further perpetuated by its 3x Green Sun's Zenith, which can do anything from first-turn Dryad Arbor (upping you to 3 mana on turn 2), to a Turn 2 Hierarch (netting you 4 mana on turn 3), or even a Tarmogoyf when needed, giving you essentially 7 goyfs in your deck.
Now of course Force of Will, threat answers like Fire//Ice and combos like Stoneforge Mystic and Dark Depths can cause problems for NO RUG, which is why there is your standard Force package which typically runs 4x Force of Will, 3x Daze, 3-4x Mental Misstep, and those Brainstorms/Ponders I mentioned earlier. This gives RUG enough blue to pound down the aggro and control hate coming from the other side.
Lastly you have your mana base. 3x Tropical Island, 3x Volcanic Island, 1x Taiga, 1x Forest, 1x Island, 1x Dryad Arbor, 4x Wooded Foothills, 4x Misty Rainforest, 1x Scalding Tarn is what I'm currently using, and aside from adding an extra Dryad Arbor or removing a Taiga, there's not much to change in that list. Sadly, if you want a top tier list, you NEED those fetches and duals. It's what makes the deck as fast as it is and as deadly as it can be. Otherwise, you may get mana screwed or come up a turn short of your win. Trust me when I say this can happen a lot more than you think, and you won't even realize it's your mana base until you fix it.

Now, the last question is the big Why. Why is this deck beating everything else silly? Well, that's the question I'm hoping YOU can tell me. Of all the 2-card combos running rampant in Legacy these days, not to mention the crazy synergy of our current combo meta, why is NO RUG arguably the top contender in the format? I have some ideas, but I'll leave that up for discussion. Have at it!

PS: Did you like this explanation? Should I do this again with another archetype? What formats/decklists would you like to see?

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PostSubject: Re: NO RUG (Natural Order Red/Blue/Green)   Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:03 pm

Suggestion would be to post the deck/cards all together so we can use it a bit easier as a comparison. I myself am barely familiar from the deck, and can only see the deck from the cards you've posted. Obviously people may have some minor alterations of it, but post the one you're thinking of talking about. Maybe people can post an alteration that they think works better or something along those lines, you know?

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PostSubject: Re: NO RUG (Natural Order Red/Blue/Green)   Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:06 pm

Good point, give me a minute.

Edit: Ok done. Please note that there's an extra trop and a missing volcanic from that list, but otherwise it's the list that I run.

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PostSubject: Re: NO RUG (Natural Order Red/Blue/Green)   Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:16 am

Yuck NO RUG, more like NOFUN Sad

But ya, its a solid list, theres really no other way to optimize it until Innistrad comes out.

I still think Jitte has been outclasses by Swords IMO

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PostSubject: Re: NO RUG (Natural Order Red/Blue/Green)   Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:05 pm

I've actually been in discussions over that very fact (Jitte vs Sword of x & x)

What I've boiled it down to is the metagame. Jitte still is very much run, but it's slot is getting pushed out in Stoneforge decks when the colour protection is more valuable than the colourless removal. Even so, I still see Jitte mainboard, Sword SB unless there's a specific reason not to.

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PostSubject: Re: NO RUG (Natural Order Red/Blue/Green)   Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:08 pm

V wrote:
But ya, its a solid list, theres really no other way to optimize it until Innistrad comes out.
Now that I can see the list as a big block, hell yeh it looks solid. Imagined a few games going through and it seems to dominate.

V wrote:
I still think Jitte has been outclasses by Swords IMO
10/10 troll. -1/-1 = op.

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PostSubject: Re: NO RUG (Natural Order Red/Blue/Green)   Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:41 am

In answer to your question though, the reason why its running so rampant is the sheer efficiency of it and no one really trying anything different to counter it.

NO RUG can easily be shut down with really silly cards (read: Extract, Night of Souls', even Alter Reality/Magical Hack etc.), but then you have "wasted slots".

The thing is, if you kill off NO, they still have beats.

If you really want, I can make a GAYTE deck (read: I don't like RUG), and I can show that its stoppable. This reminds me of the old times with Affinity, Anti-Affinity and Anti-Anti-Affinity.

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PostSubject: Re: NO RUG (Natural Order Red/Blue/Green)   Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:51 am

Ha true enough, every deck has weak points, and I think your point with "wasted slots" is a valid one. The deck seems just strong enough to match well pre-board, but since it's not overtaking the format, people aren't willing to dedicate more board slots to it. Personally I've only played the mirror twice in 9 ranked tournament matches, which doesn't seem to warrant kicking 6+ slots to nuke it.

This is why I love legacy, there's just enough deviation to make the winning decks win with there still being answers to it if people really wanted to kill it.

I've noticed though that the real solution is to eliminate the goyf threat AND the Progenitus, because then the only threat left winds up being Vendilion Clique, which is pretty fragile due to its 1 toughness.

Speaking of the Clique, how do people feel about it having shot up recently?

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PostSubject: Re: NO RUG (Natural Order Red/Blue/Green)   Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:33 am

GAYTE V1.0

[Land] 24
Snow-Covered Swamp x 4
Underground Sea x 4
Underground River x 4
Rishidan Port x 2
Wasteland x 4
Mishra's Factory x 2
B/U Fetch x 4

[Creature] 4
Vendilion Clique x 2
Evil Twin x 2

[Noncreature] 32
Extract x 4
Dark Ritual x 2
Hymn to Tourach x 4
Alter Reality x 2
Magical Hack x 2
Cranial Extraction x 2
Surgical Exraction x 2
Night of Soul's Betrayal x 2
Mental Misstep x 4
Spell Snare x 3
Jace the Mind Sculptor x 3
Thoughtseize x 4

Problem NORUG? /trollface

EDIT: IF Sea's didn't cost a kidney to purchase, I'd so do a U/B Lobotomy control (but obviously better than this that I made in 3 minutes)

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